practicality vs looks

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greenwoo
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practicality vs looks

Postby greenwoo » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:41 am

I had some random car program on in the background and my ears pricked up when i heard the words 'Cobra replica'....

it was one of the many US based 'bring it in and we'll pimp it' programs. In this case the guy wanted 'to feel more safe'.
my first thought was buy a Volvo......the 2nd was, why buy a car with a 15litre engine in it ( ok i exaggerate)....

so the guys set about 'safety'...which basically was a rollbar. Now i'm an advocate of a rollbar, but i'd like to know the statistics for rolling a kit vs stuffing one side or front on into something.

They wanted to; replicate the contour/sweep of the windscreen so that it looked cool from all angles. The result? err.......lets just say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The shocking thing though was that in doing the work they found that the seatbelts were fixed with a simple bolt through the fibreglass shell, and the seats were similarly fixed.

It made me ponder though......about rollbars. Why so many of them are just stuck on to make the car look good, or are assumed to be of some benefit in the event of 'the worst'.
I know that Caterhams have 2 heights, Duncan will no doubt correct any misinterpretation....but i'm given to understand that they take a measurement from the first solid part of the engine bay in a straight line to the rollbar with the idea that the 'head' will be below that line.

whereas......the one on my first tiger was held on with chewing gum and had no bracing, the ones on umpteen Dax Rush(es) slope ( poor passenger), and I remember Tony B's old Zero having 2 hoops which were at best close to head level. Is that cos they look the part, or cos they look the part and the buyer/owner/driver thinks 'it'll be ok'?

Whats the thought guys? would you prefer a 'pretty' car with no protection ( ie/ a Cobra with no rollbar), a 'sort of' rollbar which might/not do the trick but looks the part, or something which maybe sits taller/more ungainly which serves its purpose?

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Fury1630
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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby Fury1630 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:26 am

I've never heard of a kit rolling over, but they are very light - hit it hard enough with another vehicle & who knows where it'll end up.

The bars in the Fury come in two heights for road (over your head) & race (over your helmet), both are triangulated & both mount very firmly to the chassis, if a roll bar doesn't - it's just a length of pipe you're carrying about with you.

I added a roll bar to the Quantum & I will admit it's bolted to the GRP - but on a Quantum everything is (it's a GRP monocoque) & it's 10mm thick where the roll bar attaches.

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DJ.
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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby DJ. » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:28 pm

I can remember Paul (Crunchie) telling me he rolled his first Caterham many years ago and he ended up hanging from his belt over a ditch!

Caterham have the standard roll bar, which is lower, has rear stays but no triangulation across the hoop and no way to fit a petty strut.

The track day roll bar has X bars across the hoop and holes to bolt a petty strut that extends into the passenger footwell. It is also higher and leans forward. I believe it is only certified for sprinting if the strut is fitted which turns the car into a 1 seater!

I have the standard bar despite it only being a gnats whisker higher than my head, because it sits further back. The track bar extends forwards and would be very very close to my head even without a helmet so even a minor shunt would be likely to give me a serious head injury.

I could install a lowered floor but don't like the driving position, and a bar high enough to be safe for me in a proper roll over would be hideous!

So I have a less than perfect set up, but I wa happy driving a Lotus Elan on track for many years without any roll protection at all.

The seat belt mount issue on that Cobra just goes to show that IVA is a good idea!

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locost220
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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby locost220 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:46 pm

On the Locost original hoop, cross bar and rear stay set up me and Dave sat in the car with helmets on and made sure the hoop was high enough that the vertical line from the rad mount to the hoop was above our heads, the parts were all about 5 mm thick and welded to reinforced areas with the same degree of strength for the seat and belt mounts.
I think it looked pretty cool as well.
I also used a full steel tunnel, floors and thicker than needed steel panelled sides to the chassis.
All part of the reason my car is so bloody heavy, for me strength over looks.
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DJ.
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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby DJ. » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:58 pm

locost220 wrote:On the Locost original hoop, cross bar and rear stay set up me and Dave sat in the car with helmets on and made sure the hoop was high enough that the vertical line from the rad mount to the hoop was above our heads, .................... for me strength over looks.


Your car looked great with the bar you made :) The problem I have is being six foot, the roll bar ends up being very high, I knew a bloke my size who had one made high enough for helmet clearance on a Caterham S3 and it really did ruin the look of the car :(

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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby nelmo » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:20 pm

On my GBS, the rollbar is an extension of the chassis, so I'd like to think it would help in the unlikely event of a roll. Admittedly, my head is mm below it, so I'd have to hope I rolled on a hard surface and not grass ;)

The rollbar is actually really useful for other things; place for a high-level brake light, video camera support and grab rail to get my lardy butt in and out the car :D

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Fury1630
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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby Fury1630 » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:43 pm

nelmo wrote:.... and grab rail to get my lardy butt in and out the car :D


Really? you grease yourself with lard? :lol:

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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby leegav » Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:59 pm

I would always go for a roll bar to MSA standards. That way you know it's solid and gives piece of mind. If Rob and Paul's crash was anything to go by I would never buy a 7 style car without one now. Seen a Westfield roll down the hill at Shelsley and it was a serious serious accident. He must have rolled 3 times in the air and came out with a few bruises.
I've put a window net in my kit now to save my arms from flying everywhere ...especially out the side of the car should I roll it.
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Re: practicality vs looks

Postby DJ. » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:59 am

With your sprinting Lee, you are definitely right. There's no way I would compete (or be allowed to) without all the safety gear.

In my Seven the only time I really take it beyond the limit is on a Car Limits day and it should be virtually impossible to roll it then. A full cage would ruin my car for touring, (access and having to wear a helmet) so it would be much safer as it would barely leave my garage.

It's all about risk perception. A Seven without any roll protection is more dangerous than with, and any Seven is much more dangerous than a modern car. However, I prefer to see Sevens as a lot safer than a motorbike.


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