Been off Piste for a while

Need help from a fellow owner, something to air - discuss away!

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Weathers
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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby Weathers » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:51 am

greenwoo wrote:fingers crossed that you've both got them sorted. Can't believe the grief that you've both had, especially Lee with what seems like a truckload of hassle.


No ones taken me up on my suggestion of an article with an MNR, Caterham and Westfield owners account of buying new cars yet Mark :o :lol: :lol:

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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby nelmo » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:28 am

I guess that even though we call Westfields etc a 'factory built' car, it's still hand built by people, as opposed to robots with spot welders, so they'll never be as good.

After I 'finished' building mine, I had loads of issues - I had to give myself a stern talking to! :twisted: :lol:

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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby leegav » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:42 pm

Next up... Cracked engine cradle :roll:

By no.means do I expect a kit car to be put together like my new Octavia vrs.. but I do expect it to be reasonably reliable and as yet after 9 months it's a piece of metal in garage that I want rid of.

I would not advise anybody buying a factory built car from MNR based on my experience.

That said, my old tiger built by Gary Davison took him 5 years to get it to the state I had it off of him... I had 4 things break in 7 years of ownership. Clutch cable, accelerator cable, ball joint and alternator bracket. So...some stupid idiots put in the hard work then sell it on to someone who sees a reliable car....that's why I'm keeping up with it.

Pain in the bum though and a money pit ATM.
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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby Weathers » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:41 pm

I feel for you Lee I really do. I was so pissed off with mine. And I haven’t had a quarter of the crap that you have. Got it back after a month and wanted shut of it. Actually after it broke down at 600 miles i was thoroughly balled off. Mrs W said get your money back. I probably would if I had not fitted loads of non-Westfield bits. Oh yes and we’d gone into lock down. I ended up fixing it myself with at times useless instructions from Westfield.

Had a track day and Accomodation booked so had to use it. It was a different car and almost what I signed up for. Do I miss my old car? Yes definitely. Do I have the same affection for this one. No. Not yet. But I had 3 years of highs and a couple of lows with the last one. I’d put the ground work in (with some help from the local garage) and my old car was almost rebuild (save for the engine). Plus this one drives differently. It’s a lot less subtle and needs no finesse. You just have to wrestle the bloody thing. Might be the set up, might be the extra weight (which Westfield failed to mention). Still a few bits to fix. But I’m getting there. It is quick though as the last outing proved.

Good luck mate. I really hope it gets sorted and you can at least get all the poop out of the way early on and in a few years after a load of positives you might just stop sneering at it when you go into the garage!!

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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby SteveRST » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:46 pm

Gutted for you Lee. As you and others have said, doing the shakedown and discovering/fixing the faults yourself does seem to be par for the course with these cars. Especially when they're driven hard. And that process may take several years, with incremental upgrades, and things strengthened or reworked to be better/more reliable.

It's certainly not the way it should be though and that's wrong and frustrating (and expensive!). But keep at it mate, and try not to let it get you down.
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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby russtik » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:06 pm

People wonder why the kit car industry is disappearing. Well, it is slowly being taken apart by the last few companies still “operating” who just cannot get their sh!t together to offer something resembling decent customer service and a product that is actually fit for purpose.

Every time I read your recent posts Lee it stirs uneasy memories of my experiences with [a certain kit car company in Hull]. I naively thought at the time that putting my money into a factory built (& supplied) car would be a shortcut to a better build quality than something home built by an unknown entity. As it turned out that couldn’t have been further from the truth, just an endless stream of problems. Some of those problems were fundamental to the design of the car, such as using the MX-5 diff casing as part of the chassis structure, despite the fact that Mazda designed in a weak spot as part of the crash structure of the MX-5. The net result is my diff broke under minimal load. I’ve seen reports of other owners of their kits experiencing broken diffs as a result is of that design oversight also.

For me the rot had set in with that car and it was irreversibly a symbol of despair that I had to get rid of. I hope you’re not quite there yet Lee and that you can get past all this trouble, get something you can start to enjoy and look back putting it down to experience.
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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby b33fy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:55 pm

russtik wrote:People wonder why the kit car industry is disappearing. Well, it is slowly being taken apart by the last few companies still “operating” who just cannot get their sh!t together to offer something resembling decent customer service and a product that is actually fit for purpose.

Every time I read your recent posts Lee it stirs uneasy memories of my experiences with [a certain kit car company in Hull]. I naively thought at the time that putting my money into a factory built (& supplied) car would be a shortcut to a better build quality than something home built by an unknown entity. As it turned out that couldn’t have been further from the truth, just an endless stream of problems. Some of those problems were fundamental to the design of the car, such as using the MX-5 diff casing as part of the chassis structure, despite the fact that Mazda designed in a weak spot as part of the crash structure of the MX-5. The net result is my diff broke under minimal load. I’ve seen reports of other owners of their kits experiencing broken diffs as a result is of that design oversight also.

For me the rot had set in with that car and it was irreversibly a symbol of despair that I had to get rid of. I hope you’re not quite there yet Lee and that you can get past all this trouble, get something you can start to enjoy and look back putting it down to experience.


Pretty much sums up my experiences nicely Russ. Image below of my old shitter in its natural habitat, engine cover off at the side of the road..
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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby greenwoo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:03 am

without going off-piste from Lee's own thread....that there's fundamental changes over the past years in 'what is a kit car' / 'how a kit car used for' .

Back in 'the day' a Dutton or similar was very much a 'lets use an old scrapper car' and make something fun. In comparison to mainstream cars it would have felt quite fast and 'sporty'.
Some bright spark(s) seem to have decided that 'designing' a car is pretty simple, which i guess it is - if not so much attention is paid to the actual engineering side of things.

I was trying to explain to a pal at the weekend that the typical kit car owner is unlikely to use the car to its potential. Pottering to a show or meet, or down to the pub is never going to highlight flaws and issues....and in most cases, no doubt that's just fine.

But start to 'use' the cars and the engineering issues soon get revealed....stress fractures on chassis etc etc.
Throw in trick bits n pieces and suddenly the humble kit car can become complex....far more complex than a bloke in a shed ever imagined.

I don't know, but can't imagine that anyone buying a chassis/kit gets asked what engine/drivetrain are you going to be fitting - with a warning/caveat that it was only 'designed' to have a 1.6 pinto and be driven with kid gloves (literally) to Stoneleigh and back.

This is why (personally), i've always held the belief that given the choice of 2 cars for sale on the second hand market, i'd likely go for the one that's been on tour, done a few track days etc....as the owner will likely have sorted out foibles and reliability.

I know (believe) in the construction industry its quite normal to hold a % of the final payment back until snagging has been completed with that payment coming in 'x' weeks after completion. I bet that the kit car manufacturers would suddenly improve their testing and customer service if they found that they were going to have to either wait or forgo £3-4k until the product was deemed 'accepted'.

Infact, if any of them were forward thinking maybe that's a way of showing their faith in a product. 'we'll drive the car and put 500 miles on it before delivery to ensure there's no snags'.

anyway....back on track, hope that both of you Lee and Chris get things as you want without too much more hassle.

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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby leegav » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:35 pm

Yeah needless to say I feel very let down. Half the problems I have had I haven't listed on here.
Some very simple fixes, others have taken months to sort. The drive shaft diff leak is a prime example. Leaking from every possible orifice. Having taken out the drive shafts myself twice to change the seals and it still leaking I decided it was the shafts not in tolerance. Demanded some new drive shafts which MNR happily sent to me, then having discussed with bearings.co.uk my problems he said bet you've got wrong seals in the Sierra 7 inch diff. He told me that often people assume there is only one type of 7 inch but in fact there were two...one takes a seal with internal diameter of 40mm the other with 43mm. 43mm slide over and do make a seal but clearly not enough....so fitted 40mm and they've stopped leaking... But MNR sent me 2 new drive shafts and 2 new sets of seals ...
I personally think Marc at MNR built my car when the business was under alot of pressure, when I went up there he had 7 cars on the go and only him and one other working ...plus all his usual cad work. I think it was thrown together. Last week I did a 100 percent but and bolt check and there were dozens of bolts loose, some serious play in 3 wheels too, I think this is what's caused my poor brakes..,banged in calipers from play on all the wheels. So I've totally stripped every corner down fully and done it all myself so I know everything is as it should be. To be fair I've pretty much rebuilt the thing. Torque sealed everything everywhere and loctited every bolt possible.
Was a poop evening when I noticed my cracked engine cradle... MNR said send it back we will fix it, but it's two weekends wasted in dropping off and collecting and 200 quid in fuel... or 250 quid each way on a transporter. I know nobody in the owners club has had this happen and some have put 400 wheel hp through the cradle with busa turbos. This points me in the direction of a human error due to Marc been under pressure.

Last night I stripped the fuel tank to make sure I had what I paid for, a race tank with race foam fully baffled. Turns out it's a alloy box with no foam...

I've had a big conversation with the Mrs this week about next steps and we've agreed I'm going to keep at it. Once it is solid it will give me and the family some good times and my boys will grow up able to get involved.
Every problem is one fixed and closer to that..... :roll:
Say NO to Pheasants !!! Body count = 3
Say NO to Blackbirds !!! Body count = 1
Say NO to Marmots !!! Body count = 1
Say NO to Squirrels!!! Body count = 1

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Re: Been off Piste for a while

Postby ChrisL » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:58 pm

Just catching up with this and feel your pain, but you know the saying "when you're going through hell, keep going" Although my pain has been mostly self inflicted!!

Good luck with baby - more mouths to feed = less car money!
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