Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Need help from a fellow owner, something to air - discuss away!

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Jay
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby Jay » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:02 pm

My thoughts exactly. My zetec was running over 200hp and 9k revs. Cant really see why they would cause you to loose 140 is hp. All they are is a butterfly and an injector weather its alpha web, jenvy or bike bodies. As mike said it seems more of an asembley issues with camshaft or theres only 2 pistons in it??
Do some checks before you go spending 1500 on another set of bodies

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b33fy
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby b33fy » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:07 am

That’s very disappointing Rich after all the work you and Matt did. 60bhp is poor. Do the rolling road people know what they are doing? Handy that they are willing to sell you a new set of bodies. :?: Not sure what they mean by bodies more suited to a zetec, I understood that bodies are universal, with size based on capacity and air volume rather than engine type, changing injectors to suit bhp levels.

Had a quick scan of the thread not sure what was done or not though worth doing the basics again and ticking off the list, eg, compression test, fuel pressure, injectors, throttle opening etc. Sensors, TPS, wiring, cams and cam timing, coil packs etc. Seems odd, especially when Matt is familiar with these engines and has checked it over. Theres not a lot to go wrong with bodies, and as Jay said they ran well on his Zetec.

All the best with sorting.
Power.. small nail, fast hammer, Torque.. small nail, big hammer.. I got a big hammer :P

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locost220
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:44 am

Guys you have to recall my lack of knowledge on such things.
The set up is intended to be the ME221 which is reportedly designed to run the engine and especially the VVT in the same way Ford intended.
Leaving the cams the engine came with, that are meant to be good ones and obviously the VVT.

Recall also if you will I struggled to get the Alfa web ECU and these TB to run when originally installed and would only run once the injectors were pulled out (for a few seconds obviously ) , engine run fine with matts simple fiesta and my old bike carbs lashed together.

Once the 221 was installed ( with same TBs ) it still would not start, which was probably a firmware issue mainly, once they dialed in it seemed to run okay in the bare chassis, then taking and putting the whole car back together over the following year resulted in very rough running again, ME dialed in and then Skcc matt spent some time on software and adjusting the TBs but would still run rough and react with no input from any one.

Regarding the TB and injectors I sent them to Bogg brothers a few weeks ago to try to avoid this very situation, they cleaned and checked them visually and apart from not ever hearing of these could see nothing wrong , an injector tester they work with said one was a bit lazy but should be okay but I held off getting a replacement one or set as not knowing what cc would be best
with new set up.
Clearly there is something wrong, would hope it is not the ECU, given they have dialed into it and had free range on it this week.

Myself and Matt have played with the TB adjustments without success, I can’t believe one down on par injector would stop it running.
The injectors are old technology apparently, although due to the inlet length I can’t understand if any spray pattern would be an issue.

Talked with the RR tech yesterday and said he would recommend staying away from bike orientated carbs or TBs and go for Jenny or ATR.

Being the car is a rebuild it’s a perfect storm in that I can’t roadtest it and taking it anywhere is a combination or getting and returning a mate trailer.


Probably get it running on a £200 DanST inlet to my old bike carbs, still waiting on the quote for a whole inlet set up that will about £1200, but apparently will “sing”

Afford more money on it no, not without dipping into holiday money.

Could try another set of new injectors for £200

Fed up with it and glad I presently have another car, yes

Matt did the belt, timing as part of recent time filler and used the locking devises, will go and check the compression and already have a spare coil to put on.

Wish I left a pinto in it and the reason I stayed away from this stuff for years Yes.
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

greenwoo
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby greenwoo » Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:16 pm

I know less than most about most things, but taking a step back; Are the cams that came with the engine 'right' for the application you want - ie/ the VVT element?
Because i think that donor wasn't set up like that and they're aftermarket 'Cat' Cams. Does that/could that mean that somewhere along the line there's a mismatch?

Again, only what i 'think' i know, but doesnt the VVT element only kick in above 12/1300 rev's ( Jay/Matt many well know), if that's the case it surely should tick over perfectly? (maybe it does and i missed that part).

Finally - i think that donor just ran an Omex & Jenveys (or similar ), so if you haven't changed the Cams, or anything else engine wise, then the only variables should surely be those plus whether you/Matt changed the cam timing/position? (for it to run without VVT ).

(i'd not refer to the AlphaWeb not running it properly as i think thats a red herring, as that system wasn't mapped to whatever the timing/cams/engine is).

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Matth93
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby Matth93 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:38 pm

I think maybe we should start from scratch checking compression etc. The cam timing we checked before stripping the head off and set it back the same as it was, which was on the original timing marks but I think we should just double check nothing has moved. Like others have said I can’t see what difference using a new set of throttle bodies will be, surely the ones you’ve got should run it fairly well being as they came off a zetec anyway. The one thing I’m thinking is if we stick your old bike carbs on it it would prove the engine itself is good and then any difference will be down to the bodies. Maybe the new ecu just doesn’t work properly with your bodies setup.

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locost220
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:48 pm

Yep agreed Matt, proper inlet manifold on it way.
Tried to do compression test tonight, my tester is too short a thread to get a bite and mates one is longer but the rubber to metal coupling slips before you seal it properly so just embarrassing results.
Your one was much better for this head Matt,
Will fit bike carbs and modify the fuel supply and see what happens.
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

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Matth93
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby Matth93 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:36 am

Your welcome to borrow my compression tester if you want

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ChrisL
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby ChrisL » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:38 am

Agree with all that's been said, I'd try and run it on a standard ST inlet. I've got some injectors that worked when I had mine running on injection but before I got the SC working which you're welcome to have?
Yes I've been drinking, what of it!!

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Fury1630
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby Fury1630 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:49 pm

Rich, this may be barking up the wrong tree, but when I put the Zetec in the Quantum I had all sorts of trouble making it run, it would always start, but it wouldn't rev & it wouldn't idle, it would only stay running if the throttle was constantly moved. Turned out to be something in the relay that supplied power to the ECU. Either the relay was duff, or the power supply to it wasn't good (I changed the relay and ran a new ign live at the same time), so what I'm saying is, "expect the unexpected" & make sure you have good clean electricity going in. Other than that - good luck.

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locost220
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Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:08 pm

Thanks for the advise Tony, on that subject they mentioned about good earths and supply’s when they dialed it to it so I ran a direct live and earth as a temp measure and left the main wires hanging down on pass side, then they moaned I had not presented the car well
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer


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