Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Need help from a fellow owner, something to air - discuss away!

Moderator: Contaminated

greenwoo
Site Admin
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:34 am
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby greenwoo » Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:16 am

what appears to be a fueling/possible cam timing issues that I need to dig into further.


So what are his thoughts then Rich?
Would assume that fueling would have been easy enough for him to check / or you to check, as am guessing that its just a question of whether its getting enough supply?

So what about his thesis for cam timing? Surely they'd have to be out of whack quite a bit to make it 'orrible'? Presumably you and Matt put them back 'as was' ?

User avatar
ChrisL
Posts: 1799
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:42 pm
Location: Bedfordshire
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby ChrisL » Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:10 am

Are you using stock cam's? Assume you checked them for wear?
Is it the same process to set the timing on a ST170 as a Zetec?
Yes I've been drinking, what of it!!

User avatar
locost220
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Lewisham South London
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:09 pm

Thanks for the support guys, during the visit to BD you could see he was frustrated and perplexed as he has plenty of experience on 170, carbs, ME motorsport ECUS.
It was a case of far to much fuel at low rev rather than too little. His thoughts were could go with smaller idle jets (had none ) but should have been fine with what was there, he checked the basic cam timing as we did using the correct alignment tools and agreed were all fine as was the map but still said it felt like timings probably some cams the carbs cannot handle .
So last night I took the covers off the locost engine and a spare old ST170 engine I got to rebuild of unknown origin, with the intention of measuring the total height and width of the cams as a very basic check to see what was in the locost engine.
So using a basic digital vernier caliper it became clear that the cams, both intet and exhaust are different between the engines, but also it appears that what has been done is the exhaust shaft has been removed, modified had a trigger wheel fitted and put in place on the inlet side with an aftermarket exhaust camshaft fitted.
My thoughts are at this stage is to remove the cams out the spare engine along with the cam buckets and put them in the locost engine and try again. If all okay maybe in the future try the original throttle bodies I was trying to use beforehand.
I understand the engine used to have Jenveys probably 45 as opposed to the 38mm bike carbs I am using, maybe the ecu and jenveys could handle the cams
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

User avatar
ChrisL
Posts: 1799
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:42 pm
Location: Bedfordshire
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby ChrisL » Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:13 pm

At least you now know!!
I’d recommend measuring the shim clearances as no two heads are the same, valve seat wear etc. actually you might be better off just swapping the head if it straight and the valves seal…
Yes I've been drinking, what of it!!

User avatar
locost220
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Lewisham South London
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:49 pm

Yea I had loads of grief once we lapped in the valves on the Locost engine and Matt realised that three of the valves were no closing as the clearances were non existent and dispute many people believes ST have solid buckets so after working out they were not all mixed up I had to grind the top end of the three valves to get the right gap. So going to transplant the buckets as well and expect the worse as I know we have reasonable seal on the refurbished head seats and head gasket sets are ruddy expensive for the ST and can always swap some of the spare buckets to get the clearances now rather than grind the stems again.
Wow that must have been about 20 pages ago on this thread.
All a learning curve.
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

User avatar
locost220
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Lewisham South London
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:22 pm

So bit the bullet and stripped the cams and buckets out the spare engine last night, did the same to the Locost engine tonight and spent some time with a micrometer lent from Matt once again I labelled and measure all the buckets so if when I have the cams in the engine and I have tappet clearance issues again I will know what bucket is in there and see what out the spares I can swap it with.
Attachments
12F8062F-B6FD-45F6-8808-81C2DEE7CC62.jpeg
41028783-03C2-41BC-979D-BF767EA37B14.jpeg
9C5B3CA6-D334-44D5-9402-B52C8B6D0428.jpeg
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

User avatar
Jasonmpk
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby Jasonmpk » Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:30 pm

Well done Rich, keep at it matey.

Just a thought, I know I know nothing about zetecs, but how would a wrong cam or bad cam timing effect the fuel air mixture making it too rich? or have i got the wrong end of the stick again ?? :(

User avatar
locost220
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Lewisham South London
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:04 pm

Too old now days to think about it too much but seeing as I know it had them cams fitted and the high reading he got, his experience with the items and it a cheap fix in this Instance, seems worth a punt.
I know even with matt simple ecu it was exactly the same so seems engine related rather than ecu.
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

User avatar
locost220
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Lewisham South London
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:47 pm

Running just a tad rich.
Attachments
B7C5AAC3-7767-4000-B8DA-95FA50433047.jpeg
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer

User avatar
locost220
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Lewisham South London
Contact:

Re: Locost ''Eleanor'' Rebuild

Postby locost220 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:57 am

Very tiring weekend seemly either bend double over the low slung car or sat at work bench working with small things (no funny comments thanks )
So fitted the cams and 16 follower buckets from the spare engine into the Locost engine and rotated the cams only, with the pistons half way down the bores to ensure no cam to piston contact to check the tappet gaps as this was an issue last time.
Only one of the 16 buckets had a 1.5 thou gap as opposed to the 4-7 for inlet or 10-13 required for the exhaust.
Checked all the bucket size measurements and none of the 32 were going to be anywhere near a fit.
So wanting the car fit to drive by Thursday as I have the long Easter weekend away and need to drive it the day afterwards with no chance of getting a head gasket in time and maybe given to the fact this engine will be an experiment and chance to use the car fully I took the decision to remove material from the underside of each cam bucket or at least one to start with to see what size bucket was needed and then use this one as a datum in every hole so I knew what size to make all 16.
So the underside of the bucket is like a tree stump that rests on the top of the valve stem but enclosed in a cup so access with a tool would be an issue.

I believe you can purchase these buckets in different sizes as required as they are not ones where you can shim them, but at £30 odd each work out a tad expensive and still need to establish what sizes are required for each.

Might seem a tad cowboy ish but decided to remove the material in the first one with a variety of dremel parts and taking 7 thou off the first one and refitting it and the cam, all torqued up every time till I realised a went too far but still able to use that one in every one of the 16 holes again touqued down every time to get sizes required using feeler gauges to check the gaps left.
I managed to get the machined surface pretty square from what I can tell and being as it rest squarely on the flat surface of the valve stem and is held but allowed to move squarely up and down within the machined block I thought I would have a go on the rest like that:
Then Saturday after noon I started on them through to the evening with each taking about 45 mins with a few breaks and on to Sunday whereby the afternoon I was able to clean up and recheck and had to restart on two again.
All cleaned up and refitted I got the belt back on and after rotating and rechecked tensioner and cam setting I got it running after a cold compression test.
Initially seems to rev better past the 1500-200 range and needs a local road test so I do not have to push it too far.
Attachments
41B2D4B9-BA93-4110-BC9C-0F5C908ED440.jpeg
6F243B04-8431-41E3-A749-084F73B3E2F5.jpeg
Locost book chassis, Undergoing testing post rebuild :D :?
Robin Hood 2B, keeping me sane
Sylva Leader, stuck to the trailer


Return to “Car Related Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests